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Interesting Point of View on Ukraine crisis


Cannon Balls

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Das kann doch gar nicht sein, wenn man in den anderen Thread reinschaut wird einem ein ganz anderes Bild gemalt.

Der Ami der mittlerweile nur vier oder fünf mal gesagt hat "Wir werden schon dafür sorgen dass Nordstream nicht läuft"

Ist das jetzt die Wahrheit oder "wieder" nur "Russian disinformation"?

Hunter Bidens Ukraine "Informationen" auf seinem Laptop waren ja auch nur Russian disinformation, bis es dann plötzlich doch bestätigt echt war...

Hauptsache das Ukraine-Ding läuft weiter und die Leute glauben weiterhin die Lügengeschichten beider Seiten

 

That cant be real, when you take a look at the other thread, which is painting a very different picture

The US that just only said about four or five times "We will do whatever it takes to stop Nordstream"

Is that the Truth or just "another" "Russian disinformation" campaign?

As the information about Ukraine on Hunter Bidens Laptop was also just Russian disinformation up to the point until which it was proven to be real...

Its essential to keep the Ukraine thing running and letting the people believe the lies of both sides

Time to invest in Lockheed Martin 🤑 🤑 🤑

Edited by sniperd
oopsie Text auf deutsch verfasst, translation added (sorry)
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1 hour ago, Cannon Balls said:

Ja aber irgendwie hat dann Putin das falsche Land angegriffen. Hat der in Geographie nicht aufgepasst<'

 

Ausserdem, hätte er D angegriffen (das Polen dazwischen liegt, klammern wir mal aus) wäre er sofort von Scholz in Berlin empfangen worden (man will schlimmeres verhindern)

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32 minutes ago, joker_ch said:

Ausserdem, hätte er D angegriffen (das Polen dazwischen liegt, klammern wir mal aus) wäre er sofort von Scholz in Berlin empfangen worden (man will schlimmeres verhindern)

 

Dear Moderator please write in english.

Germany will obviously not be directly military attacked, as that would trigger a NATO response.

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Gentlemen, we shouldn't transfer the Ukraine discussion into this thread. What baffles me is that an US author comes to this conclusion. Future German-Russo alliance would thread western solidarity. Well, German Enginuity and Russian natural resources scares the hell out of USA, obviously. 

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Nothing scares the USA more than a possible economic alliance between Europe and Russia.

They are like a "good" drug dealer, they are dependent on a lot of customers to buy their stuff.

This is very likely the reason why the US Military left behind all the weapons in Afghanistan, first because they want to replace them anyways (Sig)

and secondly the most important reason, stuff you give away or lose has to be bought again 🤑

Or it is just a persuasion tactic to be friends with the Taliban, which everyone (ie USA, Germany, Russia) seems to be very keen to be

 

26 minutes ago, joker_ch said:

Biden will exchange NY against a shithole named Berlin ?

Berlin and NY are almost interchangeably equally shithole.

Biden couldnt care less, if he even remembers what the word caring means or where NY is.

Considering what my family and friends in the US tell me, they also couldnt care less if NY was "removed".

 

12 minutes ago, Cannon Balls said:

What baffles me is that an US author comes to this conclusion.

That doesnt baffle me at all, as there are a lot of americans even ex-ministry members and such, that come to this conclusion.

I think even most of the Fox News team talk about the Nordstream situation like that.

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vor 15 Minuten schrieb Cannon Balls:

Well, German Enginuity and Russian natural resources scares the hell out of USA, obviously. 

 

Nothing new, it is what George Friedman of Strarfor tells us since years.

The only astonishing point is the reaction of our government which is, from this point of view, not in our best interest.

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3 minutes ago, scynet said:

Nothing new, it is what George Friedman of Strarfor tells us since years.

The only astonishing point is the reaction of our government which is, from this point of view, not in our best interest.

Good old George, funny guy, but nowadays the world economic forum has the say.

"Our" government is not ours, it's theirs, it's their "young global leaders" and the not so young ones like Angela and Ursula.

Question, is Putin still part of their team or was he really removed from the forum, not just their website?

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Am 14.10.2022 um 16:00 schrieb Rubberduck70:

This is the English language forum.

 

Am 14.10.2022 um 16:26 schrieb tont:

This is the English language forum.

 

And him?

 

Am 14.10.2022 um 14:04 schrieb joker_ch:

Ja aber irgendwie hat dann Putin das falsche Land angegriffen. Hat der in Geographie nicht aufgepasst<'

 

...

 

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What happens if Russia loses the war. From US M14 Forum:

Zitat

Woe to the vanquished
What happens if we lose

We have a lot of arguments about what threatens us with the failure of our own. Some draw apocalyptic pictures of destroyed Moscow and wolves walking through the ruins of Tambov, others, on the contrary, exclaim: "Rus, drop your weapon, the political instructor is lying, they will feed well!". In fact, of course, the truth looks a little different. But it's not enough fun.

The tasks facing the United States and the "generalized West" in this war have already been formulated many times in one way or another. This is the maximum weakening of Russia's military, political, scientific and economic potential. At the same time, no one seems to have paid attention to an interesting point: Russia is not promised anything at all in case of surrender. Even a barrel of jam and a basket of cookies for traitors. And what will happen exactly?

And there will actually be a Mongolian yoke in the second edition. True, times are changing, and the current yoke will be a high-tech yoke, taking into account all the achievements of world political science, economics and sociology since the XIII century. In our enlightened era, yasak is rarely beaten out, directly standing over the victim with a saber and a whip.

The first and obvious: the territories will be sawn off. It is clear the Donbass, but also the Crimea. If our opposition likes to shout "Let's give Kherson!", then even it regularly stumbles on Sevastopol – it is very clearly a Russian city, it is very tightly inscribed in our history and culture, and the proposal to declare it Ukraine looks very obscene. Moreover, over the past years, a lot of people somehow managed to move – who went to live in the Crimea, who came from there. So you will have to move a lot of people. Speaking of people.

A lot of people will also have to be given out for punishment. Militias, volunteers, journalists and a crowd of those who did not like the winners. Under the knife will go, of course, just the most active – passionaries. You can, of course, say: "Yes, their heads will be cut off, and that's all," but in practice we will simply lose the most energetic and active part of the country – those who did not care when trouble happened to Russia and the people. Civil society from military enlistment officers and volunteers may not attract someone, but there is, in general, no other. Just for reference, Elizaveta Glinka, Dr. Lisa, for whom our people with good faces prayed, and who really belonged more to the liberal camp, saved children in the Donbass, too – it was just that for a person, saving children turned out to be more important than the "right" political orientation. And just three weeks ago, Oleg Melnikov, an activist and volunteer who had been engaged in rescuing people from slavery for many years, went missing near Kharkov. People who are called quilted jackets, in general, it is impossible – however, when Glinka died, Ukraine was walking around with joy, and she certainly would have gone to the winners' court; as for Melnikov, he was already arrested at best, and at worst, simply killed.

We definitely won't have any money. The thing is that everyone around will be interested in overestimating the amount of damage from the war. Reparations are such a thing: when mad billions pass through your hands, it's hard not to get sucked into a full-flowing river. You can, of course, gloat that the conditional corporation "Neftsberprom" will pay. The problem is that "neftesberprom" – they are also the largest taxpayers in the country, and pensions for old ladies are formed from their own income, and the top management will not offend themselves anyway. The adversary does not care about our old ladies, he did not come for that.

There will also be nothing more complicated than assembling stools in Russia. And regardless of our desire, the West and the coalition associated with it should be the bearer of any technologies. If someone sincerely thinks that the totalitarian Rosatom will be given the opportunity to continue its wonderful (without irony) projects when there are democratic American and French companies in the world, then you should not think so. Just remember how our nuclear engineers were thrown out of the tender for political reasons. And this applies to anything – you can remember what a massacre was going on in the coronavirus vaccine market, and with what reluctance the "Sputnik" was recognized. All this had little to do with market competition. The losers in the war will be thrown out from everywhere with great genuine pleasure – and they will dance on the grave. And it will not be possible to return.

And finally, the humanitarian sphere will be tightly controlled by a generalized Gozman. 
(My note: Leonid Gozman is a liberal Russian politician who was recently arrested for publicly critiquing Stalin). These people, in fact, have never hidden their feelings for this country, and then they will come back and sit down as policemen after they were really thrown out of our media space. And the entire domestic humanities will be subordinated to exactly one question: how we are to blame before every cockroach for every jar of dust for all generations to come. And the task will be that we are not just robbed, but robbed to our own applause. By the way, I note: this task will be performed conscientiously, skillfully and diligently. Any other point of view will not just be marginal, it will be prohibited by law. Again, pay attention to how this is actually done in Europe and the United States – thoughtcrimes already exist there as a phenomenon with sanctions, including very tough ones.

And, of course, how to do without decolonization. All the national suburbs will, of course, be cut off to hell along with the Russian population there. At the same time, residents of these suburbs will not really be asked what they want, they will simply be confronted with the fact by a vociferous minority. And those who don't like it will be imprisoned or killed, like quilted jackets. Actually, in Ukraine we have already been shown how this is done. At the same time, resistance to "decolonizers" from the local Russians, of course, will be. It will not be organized and powerful enough to win, but desperate enough to justify any purges. Odessa has already shown how this is done: the "colorads", you see, fought back when they came to kill them – therefore, they themselves are to blame. By the way, on the same ground, all sorts of independent batki-atamans come out from everywhere. You can ask "from where", but the experience of the LDPR shows that such people climb from everywhere themselves when the opportunity arises. Who would have known the ataman nicknamed Kosogor in Lugansk until the fall of 2014. And this figure managed to separate the Red Ray from the LNR (!), and the military team had to kick him out. And we have a military team here that will not come on the occasion of the collapse of the state. Don't you want to fight in Ukraine? I assure you, you will like fighting for the Holy Perm Empire and the federation of Tagil and Kachkanar even more, and you will like the People's Cossack court of the Voronezh free Hetmanate with whips much more than the old, boring, corrupt arbitration.

At best, it will all be framed as a confederation. By the way, there will be no Russian national state there. There will be a ghetto, where refugees from new formations will be periodically resettled.

We will get both hot spots and ethnic cleansing 
– and, by the way, the matador's final death blow to the economy. The fact is that in Russia, as you all probably know, money is earned mostly not where people live. Regions like Yamal, Sakhalin, Surgut, etc., bring the most dirty, but necessary pieces of paper to the Motherland, and the population lives mainly in the European part and on the line along the Trans-Siberian Railway. So, the appearance of customs, new borders and hot spots between the population and its wealth will finish off transport connectivity first, and then the economy as such. This is to the question of why Russians should not live in a dozen compact states. Because.

Oh, yeah. If you hoped to get at least democracy, forget it. No one has been interested in democracy for a hundred years, so they will not be happy if they really hear the voice of the people, the real voice is pretty radical. Westernized Pinochet is just the best answer to the aspirations of respected partners. Again, it is difficult to refrain from a historical example: it will soon be thirty years since government tanks fired at parliament in the center of Moscow. And then it was accepted with delight, because the government is the right government, and the parliament is wrong, and citizens voted for insufficiently pleasant people.

At the same time, the cimes is that a complete voluntary surrender right now and an exit with raised hands does not give anything at all. Look at Serbia. The brothers gave up (when the combined power of NATO is hammering at you, it's hard not to give up), fulfilled all the requirements (otherwise they would have been hammered in the Stone Age at all). And, by the way, they have built a very real, competitive democracy, like in the best houses. As a result, the only thing they got was the cessation of direct physical violence. They, of course, did not get into any EU, they were not recognized as their own anywhere, all that Serbia received was the status of a quiet Omezhka, whom no one cares about and who is sometimes shouted at if he tries to at least cast a vote. At the same time, the Serbs had to give up a fair part of their political and military elite (and all, if we talk about the leaders of the Serbian republics outside Serbia itself), and agree with the stigma of an uncontested, not even the main, but the only villain in the Balkan wars.

In short, the honorable surrender is not visible here. And for us, surrender will not mean the end of real horrors, but only their beginning. The above is not a horror story, it's not a fantasy, it's what really happens to countries that come out with their hands up and a little belly.

Therefore, we will have to win.

***

My note: The translation may not be 100 percent perfect, but it gives you a sense of the pro-war mindset. They are not so worried about a threat from Ukraine or NATO, but what would happen internally within Russia - if Ukraine and the "Generalized West" defeats the Russian military in Ukraine and they have to give up the Donbas and Crimea territories. Instead of accepting a tactical defeat where Russia goes back to living within its 1991 borders (aka, pre-2014 era), they seem to fear that the country will actually have to face accountability for the war - which will unleash chaotic processes that end the Russian Federation itself. (Fear of post-war trials for "punishment" of its military, journalists, who are the most “energetic” and “active” people in Russian society, etc; the "reparations" issue that will break the state, and the the presumed “decolonization” of areas in Moldova, Georgia, etc). In that process, Russia will begin to implode and dis-member itself, apparently via "hot spots and ethnic cleansing."

That's the dangerous mindset that Vladimir Putin and the pro-war part of Russian society is projecting in an article like this. Here in the west, we didn't worry that the US would 'implode' following the US military withdrawal from Vietnam, or Iraq, or Afghanistan, but in Russia, they see a military defeat in Ukraine as a prospective existential threat to their nation's existence. That's a hard one to swallow....

 

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  • 1 month later...
Am 16.10.2022 um 00:34 schrieb rwlturtle:

And him?

He is a native french speaker.

For those, there is a leck in this forum.

(Il est de langue maternelle Français.

 Pour ceux-ci, il y a une lacune dans ce forum.)

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