Sending rifle magazine from Germany to another European country

[Countdowns]

Hello, 

I hope it is okay that i write in English considering that i dont speak German. 

 

Im looking to buy a rifle magazine for my 22LR rifle, however, there are noe dealers in my country who sells this magazine (the rifle is not very common in my country), so i have been looking for the possibilities to buy the magazine from USA, but the US has export restrictions on every magazine (my country does not have any import restrictions at all on magazines) so that doesnt work. 

 

I have found some german webshops that sells the 22LR magazines i want, but the webshop does not send to my country. Is there any export restrictions in Germany on rifle magazines? 

Would it be possible that a german citizen could help me out with this, with the webshop sending to his adress in Germany and then he sends it private to me? If so, it would be great if someone here could help me out  

 

By the way, i want to point out that the 22LR magazine im looking for is completely legal in my country, the problem is that there are no dealers here. 

 

Thanks! 

[p0ddie]

Which country are we talking about? We don't have general export laws on free parts such as mags, but nobody wants to end up on a watchlist

 

inb4 I will not be your shipping proxy, many dealers will send internationally.

[Countdowns]

Thanks for the answer! 

I live in Norway 

 

 

[Tyr13]

There are a couple of things that might enable us to make a more definite answer.

What make and Model of Firearm ?

What capacity of rounds in the Magazine ?

What Country is the final Destination ?

Do You have the required license for the Firearm ?

[Countdowns]

It is a Marlin Mod 70

The magazine im looking for is a Promag MAR-A1 

Norway 

Yes, i have the right license for the rifle  

[CZM52]

vor 22 Minuten schrieb Countdowns:

Hello, 

I hope it is okay that i write in English considering that i dont speak German. 

 

Im looking to buy a rifle magazine for my 22LR rifle, however, there are noe dealers in my country who sells this magazine (the rifle is not very common in my country), so i have been looking for the possibilities to buy the magazine from USA, but the US has export restrictions on every magazine (my country does not have any import restrictions at all on magazines) so that doesnt work. 

 

I have found some german webshops that sells the 22LR magazines i want, but the webshop does not send to my country. Is there any export restrictions in Germany on rifle magazines? 

Would it be possible that a german citizen could help me out with this, with the webshop sending to his adress in Germany and then he sends it private to me? If so, it would be great if someone here could help me out  

 

By the way, i want to point out that the 22LR magazine im looking for is completely legal in my country, the problem is that there are no dealers here. 

 

Thanks! 

  So, normally that Magazine was exportet from USA to Germany under a License!

 

That License say, Magazine is Enduse in Germany. So it is not legal to export, even it is a Free part. It is not a German Regulation, its a US Regulation (ITAR)

[Tyr13]

There are several gunshops that should be able to facilitate the Export into another Schengen-Country. A Specialist for Export is waffen-Bock , You might want to make Kontakt with them. Have You asked the People from the shop where You found the Magazine specifically ? Bevor I become commercially an legally liable, I'd have to Research that Problem further, haven't done that before.

[Countdowns]

The Promags are under ITAR regulation, but i believe Tyr13 are right that it could be exported to other Schengen-countries. 

I spoke with a german gunshop and they had no problems sending magazines (also the Promag) to Norway, the problem was that they did not have it in stock. The other german gunshop i found had it in stock, but did not send to Norway, but they did ship to other EU-states.  

 

 

[Tyr13]

Look here:

Brownells Norway

 

They do not seem to have a 25 round Magazine on order, but they seem to have at least some parts.

[Countdowns]

I have been speaking with Brownells Norway, the could unfortunately not help me out

[frosch]

Hello Countdowns,

 

In fact there are different laws which are involved:

 

1. Import to Norway : Law of Norway - You say that there are no restrictions for you

2. Export from Germany to Norway: Verordnung (EG) Nr. 258/2012 (Feuerwaffen-Verordnung) enthält EU-weit geltende einheitliche Regelungen zurAusfuhr bestimmter Feuerwaffen.
As Norway also did implement this European Union edict to local law, there is no problem and you do not need a German export license for a magazine.

 

3. ITAR Regulations -USA: These regulations do affect all US made weapons and gun parts which are exported from the US and even effect such weapons and gun parts which originated from the US and were exported with an ITAR license and will now be sent to another non-US country. For example US Export with ITAR approval-> DE another ITAR approval is needed-> NO

 

This ITAR US law is not valid in other countries in the world but if Uncle Sam can grab you, you will be punished by fines and incarceration.

 

There is no German Dealer who will spent so much money and time to get an ITAR approval for exporting a fucking small magazine....

 

Best regards,

 

frogger

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Traffic_in_Arms_Regulations

Bearbeitet 13. Oktober 2017 von frosch

[Countdowns]

Thanks for the answer frogger. 

 

If i understand you correct a new ITAR license is needed to ship this magazine from Germany to Norway. Seems weird tough, that one german shop i talked with would send it to me (but they didnt have it in stock) 

 

I completely understand that no dealer would care to get a new license. I was mainly asking if it was legal and possible to ship from Germany to Norway without license. 

 

Thanks

 

Bearbeitet 13. Oktober 2017 von Countdowns

[HangMan69]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Countdowns:

I was mainly asking if it was legal and possible to ship from Germany to Norway without license.

 

it is possible, but not legal...

[frosch]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb HangMan69:

 

it is possible, but not legal...

This is not true.

 

It is legal because US Law is not valid neither in Germany nor in Norway. So you don not need to care about ITAR if you NEVER plan to make deals with Americans (you could be placed on an embargo list) and never will travel to a country which will extradite you to the US for ITAR violations.

 

So far other countries law is affacted ITAR is simply violating public international law. But Uncle Sam has got the Dollars and the atomic bombs... :-(

 

frogger

[Countdowns]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb frosch:

This is not true.

 

It is legal because US Law is not valid neither in Germany nor in Norway. So you don not need to care about ITAR if you NEVER plan to make deals with Americans (you could be placed on an embargo list) and never will travel to a country which will extradite you to the US for ITAR violations.

 

So far other countries law is affacted ITAR is simply violating public international law. But Uncle Sam has got the Dollars and the atomic bombs... :-(

 

frogger

So the german stores that sends these magazine does problably violate the ITAR? 

 

Thanks 

[German]

Yes.

[2011-Jack]

Look here ... : https://www.brownells.no/

[Countdowns]

Thanks for the answer guys. I sure dont want to do something illegal so i guess ill have to do some more research. 

As for Brownells.no they are importer of ProMag in Norway, but they dont carry the magazine i want, which also is from Promag. They told me they might carry it in the future, but as for now, there are not too many interested buyers on that magazine so therefore they dont carry it.

Bearbeitet 13. Oktober 2017 von Countdowns

[Countdowns]

It also seems like there are different topics on this, some says it legal, some says its illegal... 

[frosch]

The answer is:

Related to international public law ITAR cannot affect a transfer of a gun part from Germany to Norway.

Only German and Norwegian laws do apply for this.

 

But Uncle sam says: I do not care about international public law. If you violate these ITAR regulations, I can set you on a US embargo list and if I catch you I will incarcerate you.

 

http://www.globaltradeexpertise.com/news/2013/11/16/california-engineer-sentenced-to-24-years-in-prison-for-itar-violations

[tar]

What happens if you buy cuban cigars - do the g-men come to fetch you?  

[knight]

Have you tried to order from a store in USA?

 

As far as I know it is easy for the US located store to get a ITAR export permission if the value of the exported goods is below 100 USD.

[Countdowns]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb knight:

Have you tried to order from a store in USA?

 

As far as I know it is easy for the US located store to get a ITAR export permission if the value of the exported goods is below 100 USD.

I have talked with a few stores but they couldnt help me out. 

Maybe i should ask some more stores

[German]

Am 14.10.2017 um 09:20 schrieb knight:

As far as I know it is easy for the US located store to get a ITAR export permission if the value of the exported goods is below 100 USD.

 

The store still has to be registered as an exporter, the good-to-be-exported has to be on the export license of said shop and the transfer itself has to be logged with the applicable state department online export control system (but does not need an approval). All of this consumes time and money which will have to be added to the sales price.

 

Which is why most of the US shops simply do not want the hassle, even if they are registered exporters.